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Old 07/09/2017, 02:09 PM   #1
studboy36
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Proper Skimmer Size For A Five Foot Tank

Hi Scott,

I've been in the process of collection(buying) equipment for a 100 gallon aquarium. At this point I have everything I need except the tank and stand. I've decided to increase the size of the aquarium to a Reefer 625XXl which is approximately 165 gallons or a custom SCA aquarium at a 187 gallons. Both tanks are only 60" long as that's all I have space for, but I can go deeper which is why the SCA would be 60" x 30" x 24".

I originally bought a Reef Octopus 150ext skimmer with it's associated neck cleaner for the 100, but this will probably be to small for a larger more heavily stocked aquarium. Since I only have a 60" length to work with the skimmer must be compact and sit inside the sump with a automatic Zeovit reactor in the same sump chamber since space will be at a premium inside the cabinet stand.

All this revision started when I sat down last night and made up my stock list of fish for my aquarium. The stock list is completely fluid, so animals can be added or subtracted from it depending on space requirements. The fish will be introduced from the most peaceful/smallest ones first so they have a chance to establish themselves moving up to larger semi-aggressive then aggressive territorial fish last.

The sump that I bought may be adequate for either of the larger tanks, but now I'm thinking that I might want to replace it with an elite aquatics sump so I can completely integrate the roller mat into it instead of outside of the sump. Again I really need to maximize space inside the stand. The two skimmers that I'm looking at are the Mini 160 or Mini 180.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Stocklist:

6 Yellowstriped Cardinalfish Peaceful
3 Pajama Cardinalfish Peaceful
1 Royal Gramma Peaceful
1 McCoskers Flasher Wrasse (Male) Peaceful
1 Bicolor Blenny Peaceful
1 Red Head Solon Fairy Wrasse Peaceful
1 Moorish Idol Peaceful
1 Swales Swiss Guard Basslet Semi-Aggressive
1 Foxface Lo Peaceful
2 True Percula Clownfish Semi-Aggressive
1 Lyretail Anthias (Male) Semi-Aggressive
3 Lyretail Anthias (Female) Semi-Aggressive
1 Regal Angelfish Semi-Aggressive
1 Gold Flake Angelfish Semi-Aggressive
1 Powder Blue Tang Agressive


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Old 07/09/2017, 07:21 PM   #2
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For 165 or 180 gallons, I would suggest either a Double Cone 180, Mini 180 or Mini 200 and of the 3, the Mini 200 would be most appropriate given the display size. The Mini 180 is marginal if you increase your fish load much but would be OK with the 165 but if you are seriously considering the 180 gallon display which in the case of a display tank, bigger is always better, then I would go with the Mini 200 over the 180. Plus the RD3 in the Mini 200 is a worthy upgrade of the Mini 180. Don't get me wrong, the Mini 180 is a GREAT skimmer with a GREAT pump but the RD3 adds a level of fine tuning not found on the Mini 180.


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Old 07/09/2017, 09:41 PM   #3
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Thank you very much for the advice Scott. It makes a lot of sense especially with the amount of fish I want to have in the tank. It looks like it will be a SCA tank and stand with the mini 200. I'll see if I can find one used. If not then I'll buy one from aquarium specialty.


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Old 07/28/2017, 04:59 PM   #4
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Scott the more I look at the mini 200 with its controlable pump. The more I like it. I've decided on a reefer 625xxl. The display tank is 133-135 gallons. I do plan on heavily stocking the tank given my stock list. I probably wouldn't have to fiddle too much with the sumps water level. I could control it through my apex using a ramping profile. It's a slightly higher cost, but I gain control over the skimmers performance and I can fine tune it accordingly to the DT size and stocking levels at any given time.

Go big or go home!


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Old 07/28/2017, 05:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by studboy36 View Post
Scott the more I look at the mini 200 with its controlable pump. The more I like it. I've decided on a reefer 625xxl. The display tank is 133-135 gallons. I do plan on heavily stocking the tank given my stock list. I probably wouldn't have to fiddle too much with the sumps water level. I could control it through my apex using a ramping profile. It's a slightly higher cost, but I gain control over the skimmers performance and I can fine tune it accordingly to the DT size and stocking levels at any given time.

Go big or go home!
My concern is the fact that it's oversized for your display and loads. Sizing the skimmer based on the display size is the correct way to do it. It's our displays that generate the load where as the sumps contribute to load reduction. The bigger the skimmer, the larger the neck diameter and the larger the neck diameter, the more volume of dissolved organics needed to generate enough foam to fill the neck. In the absence of enough DOC's, the skimmer will make bubbles but the bubbles won't stick together to form foam as the proteins are what help the bubbles to bind together. The end result is the skimmer will perform well for a day or two and then slow down for days and idle along without generating skimmate. Inconsistent skimming is a byproduct of oversizing a skimmer. The only workaround for that is running the skimmer really wet which reduces any ability to fine tune the performance of the skimmer. Sometimes bigger isn't always better. As such, I still say the Mini 180 is the better choice.. These skimmers are conservatively rated as it is.

As for fine tuning, the Red Dragon in the Mini is one of the best AC based skimmer pumps ever made and anybody who knows skimmers wouldn't argue that. The RD3 is great for fine tuning but it's not really needed in the 180. It is a beast right out of the box and very well balanced. That said, the sweet spot for the 200 sized skimmer is typically between 28 and 32 watts. As far as "heavy stocking" a truly heavily stocked tank is about 1/2" of fish per gallon.. Do you really envision 65-70" of fish in your tank? Don't get me wrong, the Mini 200 is a GREAT skimmer. I just want you to be aware that you will likely have to run it wet to keep it reasonably consistent. It's really too large for a 135 gallon display and if it were my tank, I'd go with the Mini 180.


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 07/28/2017, 06:38 PM   #6
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Listen to scott, he knows his stuff!
I have a double cone 200 which is rated for like 250 gallons, I have a240 gallon tank with over 30 fish in it and the skimmer doesn't even break a sweat to keep up with my load.

Corey


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Old 07/28/2017, 06:45 PM   #7
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Scott. Do I envision 65"-70" of fish in the 625xxl? Based on the maximum size of fish in my stock list I could easily surpass that which would be 81". So I would probably have to scale back the stock list to stay with a 625xxl, or buy the mini 200 and get a bigger tank for the my stock list. Too accommodate my stock list I should probably go with a SCA 150 (60 x 24 x 24) widened by another 5" which would make it 30" deep (60 x 30 x 24) approximately 187 gallons. I'd get more tank and stand for my money. If that's the case, I should get the mini 200. Even the standard SCA 150 would probably work.

My stock list is what's really driving this.


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Old 07/28/2017, 06:58 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by biecacka View Post
Listen to scott, he knows his stuff!
I have a double cone 200 which is rated for like 250 gallons, I have a240 gallon tank with over 30 fish in it and the skimmer doesn't even break a sweat to keep up with my load.

Corey
Corey I'm totally listening. I trust his recommendations. If I really want to accommodate my stock list I should get a larger tank and the mini 200.


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Old 07/28/2017, 07:06 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by studboy36 View Post
If I really want to accommodate my stock list I should get a larger tank and the mini 200.
Now your talking.. If you are going to go bigger, start with the tank! From my perspective, the bigger the display the better. More stability, more fish, more room for aquascape and corals, less desire to upgrade sooner... At 180 gallons, I'd feel better about the Mini 200. Especially given your potential load.


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 07/28/2017, 07:28 PM   #10
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Ok Scott I'm going big! I'm going to send an email to Steve at SCA to quote me a tank
(60 x 30 x 24) approximately 187 gallons with holes drilled for a 16" Synergy Reef overflow eurobraced and also quote it as a rimless tank plus a stand similar in look to a reefer stand. Which means I'll need to get a mini 200 :-). See! I knew I was right! Lol


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Old 07/28/2017, 07:35 PM   #11
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I'm gonna add 20 more fish to my tank!!
Go big!!!!


Corey

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Old 07/28/2017, 08:12 PM   #12
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Corey I just sent Steve at SCA an email. I'm going big!


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Old 07/28/2017, 09:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studboy36 View Post
Ok Scott I'm going big! I'm going to send an email to Steve at SCA to quote me a tank
(60 x 30 x 24) approximately 187 gallons with holes drilled for a 16" Synergy Reef overflow eurobraced and also quote it as a rimless tank plus a stand similar in look to a reefer stand. Which means I'll need to get a mini 200 :-). See! I knew I was right! Lol
Nice!


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 07/30/2017, 06:15 PM   #14
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Good for you!!!
You won't regret it at all.

Corey


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Old 08/04/2017, 08:26 PM   #15
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Euro brace

Quote:
Originally Posted by studboy36 View Post
Ok Scott I'm going big! I'm going to send an email to Steve at SCA to quote me a tank
(60 x 30 x 24) approximately 187 gallons with holes drilled for a 16" Synergy Reef overflow eurobraced and also quote it as a rimless tank plus a stand similar in look to a reefer stand. Which means I'll need to get a mini 200 :-). See! I knew I was right! Lol
I have read that the euro brace and Synergy Overflow will cause the water level to be too low in the tank, or possibly they fixed the problem, I am just throwing that out there, you might already know it. Nice choices you can't go wrong with either tanks.


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Old 08/11/2017, 08:28 PM   #16
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Eurobracing

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I have read that the euro brace and Synergy Overflow will cause the water level to be too low in the tank, or possibly they fixed the problem, I am just throwing that out there, you might already know it. Nice choices you can't go wrong with either tanks.
Not if the euro bracing is flush and not recessed like it typically is on their tanks. It can either be flush with the rim or sit on top of the rim of the tank. Steve quoted me $1295 for the tank 60" x 30" x24" flush eurobraceing drilled for the Synergy Overflow w/ drilled returns plus $900 for a wood stand similar to the outside look of a reefer stand. The $1295 includes shipping though I'll have to pay for a lift gate which isn't much. I probably won't order the tank and stand until October. I still have a few more things to get before I order the tank. I was shocked that it was so cheap. He makes great tanks.

Scott:
I ordered the BK Mini 200 today from Premium Aquatics. It shipped out today should be here by Thursday.

I'm also thinking about a Red Dragon pump the smallest one for the tank along with the controller for my Apex.


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Old 08/11/2017, 11:17 PM   #17
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Not if the euro bracing is flush and not recessed like it typically is on their tanks. It can either be flush with the rim or sit on top of the rim of the tank. Steve quoted me $1295 for the tank 60" x 30" x24" flush eurobraceing drilled for the Synergy Overflow w/ drilled returns plus $900 for a wood stand similar to the outside look of a reefer stand. The $1295 includes shipping though I'll have to pay for a lift gate which isn't much. I probably won't order the tank and stand until October. I still have a few more things to get before I order the tank. I was shocked that it was so cheap. He makes great tanks.

Scott:
I ordered the BK Mini 200 today from Premium Aquatics. It shipped out today should be here by Thursday.

I'm also thinking about a Red Dragon pump the smallest one for the tank along with the controller for my Apex.
Congrats on the skimmer. You will love it. As for the pump, the smallest we have is the RD3 50. It might be a bit smalll for a 160 gallon display depending on your head pressure. That said, if it's for a return pump, I would forgo the Apex 0-10v control. For a close loop it makes more sense but I am not a fan of 0-10v control for return pumps.If you loose power on the 0-10v channel the fun will shut down. You also have fine control using the RD3 controller vs 0-10v. .


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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 08/12/2017, 10:31 AM   #18
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Congrats on the skimmer. You will love it. As for the pump, the smallest we have is the RD3 50. It might be a bit smalll for a 160 gallon display depending on your head pressure. That said, if it's for a return pump, I would forgo the Apex 0-10v control. For a close loop it makes more sense but I am not a fan of 0-10v control for return pumps.If you loose power on the 0-10v channel the fun will shut down. You also have fine control using the RD3 controller vs 0-10v. .
It's a return pump for the 185. At most head pressure would be 4 feet possibly. The pump would be sitting right underneath the tank. It's either this pump or the COR which just went out to beta testers for final review.


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Old 08/15/2017, 09:16 PM   #19
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Scott when is the RD 3 80w DC pump coming back in stock?


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Old 08/15/2017, 10:13 PM   #20
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Well since these are out of stock maybe the 50w RD3 will be ok. They're $670 at premium Aquatics. I will have about 4.5' of head pressure and this is a rollermat sump so the most I can push through it would be 600-700 gph. It's not controllable unless I buy the module, but the only reason for that would be a feed mode through my apex. Rethinking my plumbing slightly I've decided to replace the 90 Ells with 90 sweeps as I like the look and it would reduce friction (mostly for the look).


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Old 08/17/2017, 08:37 AM   #21
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Well it looks like I'll get the RD3 150 pump. Ive already spent a small fortune in plumbing, so the return line is .75" with a manifold. 1" overflow lines. Nothing is assembled as I don't have the tank yet and probably won't until december.


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Old 08/17/2017, 10:23 AM   #22
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Well it looks like I'll get the RD3 150 pump. Ive already spent a small fortune in plumbing, so the return line is .75" with a manifold. 1" overflow lines. Nothing is assembled as I don't have the tank yet and probably won't until december.
You will absolutely LOVE that pump!


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Old 08/17/2017, 01:09 PM   #23
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Yeah I think I will love it. At $1099 in going to love it. It's controllable in the way that I want it to be controlled. It has the power to push water where it needs to go, and I can fine tune it to match the gph requirements of my rollermat which is approximately 600-700 gph. I need to grow my sump a little more to accommodate it and the two heaters. Other then that the sump design is nearly complete. The skimmer comes in today! What I can do is use the skimmer pump as a starting point to model the 150.

I also need to model the skimmer so I can design a cover for it and the zeovit reactor which I still need to buy from Japan next week. Looks like everything will fit according to what I modeled as mock ups for the skimmer and reactor.

The sump is based upon elite aquatics rollermat sump with my changes. It's going to look similar to a dreambox only in acrylic. I'll post pics of the skimmer tonight, and the sump design.


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Old 08/17/2017, 01:18 PM   #24
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Yeah I think I will love it. At $1099 in going to love it. It's controllable in the way that I want it to be controlled. It has the power to push water where it needs to go, and I can fine tune it to match the gph requirements of my rollermat which is approximately 600-700 gph. I need to grow my sump a little more to accommodate it and the two heaters. Other then that the sump design is nearly complete. The skimmer comes in today! What I can do is use the skimmer pump as a starting point to model the 150.

I also need to model the skimmer so I can design a cover for it and the zeovit reactor which I still need to buy from Japan next week. Looks like everything will fit according to what I modeled as mock ups for the skimmer and reactor.

The sump is based upon elite aquatics rollermat sump with my changes. It's going to look similar to a dreambox only in acrylic. I'll post pics of the skimmer tonight, and the sump design.



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Current Tank Info: 480G display mixed reef, 90G sump, 90G refugium, 60G display refugium. Check out my build thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1783476
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Old 08/17/2017, 08:58 PM   #25
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Wow! What a skimmer! It's built like a tank and beautiful! It's heavy and well crafted. It looks like the pump has 0-10V control. That feature wasn't listed on the premium aquatics site. I've never owned a skimmer like this before. This is the first time that I've spent this much on a skimmer. It looks like it's worth the money and it will last years when it's put in service. I am disappointed though that I thought that I was buying this skimmer with the anti-lime bypass feature. It doesn't have it. Having paid $1200 for it. I should expect it to be flawless. It's not. There is damage to the volute, and it makes me not trust that it will be fully functional when it's put into operation. This is not acceptable.

The last pic is of the rollermat sump based on Elite Aquatics design only mine is bigger and it will have covers.

Skimmer Pic_1.jpg

Skimmer Pic_2.jpg

RD Skimmer Pump.jpg

Volute Damage.jpg

Sump Pic_1.jpg


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