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Old 12/21/2016, 03:14 PM   #2151
Michael Hoaster
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You know that feeling when your tank has been running for two years, everything is going great, and it feels like you can do no wrong, then suddenly, you realize something IS wrong? That's the feeling I'm having right now.

My tank has ICH. Sheldon, the last of 3 lookdowns died. All 6 of the barnacle blennies are gone. Big Daddy, the male royal gramma died, before the ich outbreak, so I think his death was natural. Males, managing large harems, live hard and fast. So now one of the bigger females will change to male and take over stud duties.

So, what now? Sunday, I sat down in front of my aquarium, with pen and paper and did some serious thinking. I asked myself, "what would I do to improve my aquarium, if funds and gumption were no issue?" I was amazed at how many things I could think of. I wrote them all down, so I won't forget.

Obviously, job one is to get my QT ready for ich treatments. Right now, it's more setup to be like a smaller version of my display, with sand, old coral skeletons and macros. All that has to go, and will be replaced with the customary pvc pipe sections. Then I have to catch the royal grammas, and some of the mollies, and get treatments going. Easier said than done, especially with the gramma caves, but I'm hoping my 2 liter soda bottle trap will do the trick.

In the meantime, I will run the display fallow (fishless), to break the lifecycle of ich.

Plus, there's a whole boatload of changes I'd like to make to the tank. If I do them, then this would qualify as a full-blown overhaul. First, I listed desired changes. Then I listed how I would go about making these changes. Then I wrote an action list, by priority. By the way, I think this is a great exercise. I highly recommend it!

So, here's what I'm thinking:

lower the fake mangrove and overflow-turned-refugium by two inches
build new fake wall for the end, flow-through wall
empty the DSB, removing all seagrasses and replant with new soil layer and manatee grass only
add 10 pounds farmed florida live rock
return royal grammas to display after treatment, and start a new fish community

There are a few more, mainly system changes, like replacing my canister filter, I'm not bothering to list here.

I'm currently storing up the gumption for the QT project. Wish me luck!


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Old 12/21/2016, 03:57 PM   #2152
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Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
You know that feeling when your tank has been running for two years, everything is going great, and it feels like you can do no wrong, then suddenly, you realize something IS wrong? That's the feeling I'm having right now.

My tank has ICH. Sheldon, the last of 3 lookdowns died. All 6 of the barnacle blennies are gone. Big Daddy, the male royal gramma died, before the ich outbreak, so I think his death was natural. Males, managing large harems, live hard and fast. So now one of the bigger females will change to male and take over stud duties.

So, what now? Sunday, I sat down in front of my aquarium, with pen and paper and did some serious thinking. I asked myself, "what would I do to improve my aquarium, if funds and gumption were no issue?" I was amazed at how many things I could think of. I wrote them all down, so I won't forget.

Obviously, job one is to get my QT ready for ich treatments. Right now, it's more setup to be like a smaller version of my display, with sand, old coral skeletons and macros. All that has to go, and will be replaced with the customary pvc pipe sections. Then I have to catch the royal grammas, and some of the mollies, and get treatments going. Easier said than done, especially with the gramma caves, but I'm hoping my 2 liter soda bottle trap will do the trick.

In the meantime, I will run the display fallow (fishless), to break the lifecycle of ich.

Plus, there's a whole boatload of changes I'd like to make to the tank. If I do them, then this would qualify as a full-blown overhaul. First, I listed desired changes. Then I listed how I would go about making these changes. Then I wrote an action list, by priority. By the way, I think this is a great exercise. I highly recommend it!

So, here's what I'm thinking:

lower the fake mangrove and overflow-turned-refugium by two inches
build new fake wall for the end, flow-through wall
empty the DSB, removing all seagrasses and replant with new soil layer and manatee grass only
add 10 pounds farmed florida live rock
return royal grammas to display after treatment, and start a new fish community

There are a few more, mainly system changes, like replacing my canister filter, I'm not bothering to list here.

I'm currently storing up the gumption for the QT project. Wish me luck!
Damn, that sucks..

Sorry for the losses. Do you know what the ich came in on??

Sounds like you plan on starting over!
Interested in what's next in store for the "carribean biotope"? Or are we moving in a new different direction???


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Old 12/21/2016, 04:56 PM   #2153
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Thanks Sam.

I suspect the ich came in on the lookdowns. They were in rough shape and very stressed. It seems less likely to have come in with the mollies, since they started in fresh water. I guess it was my turn to learn the 'quarantine everything' lesson.

I'd say it's more like a 2.0 version, than a new direction for the tank. I see no reason to bail on the caribbean biotope. I'm really enjoying it. It restricts what I can add, but that's part of the fun/challenge.

I think the biggest challenge will be the DSB/seagrass redo. I've been thinking about that, and how best to proceed. Ideally, the grasses are pulled with soil substrate attached. So I may use a full sized shovel to scoop them out en masse. Once out of the tank, I'll need to remove the unwanted grasses, add a new soil underlayer to the DSB, and then return the manatee grass plants quickly to minimize shock to them.

Oh, and I plan to keep the tank up and running through the whole process. I don't want to interrupt the berghia nudibranchs' progress, eating up the aiptasia anemones.


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Old 12/22/2016, 06:41 AM   #2154
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Michael, these "technical stops" are very important, and you do not waste time on it, but whatever we do a second time to improve what we did in the first one is valid.

My tank, for example, is to this day with nothing but mini-pagures. The macroalgae I added died almost all of them. Because of this, a lot of filaments appeared, but apparently, they will disappear gradually. Then you would ask: why did not you add anything? Simply for lack of time to look for a good store to acquire more animals, because I do not have marine stores in my city. So he's there, cycling, and following life ...

That does not bother me, because the basic parameters are ok, so I take the time to make necessary adjustments. I'm not "wasting time," but letting nature take its course. With this, I have seen many copepods, gamarides and others, that is, things are going well.

Ict usually only appears with low immunity even, and I do not see where your tank would have defects to not provide a healthy life to the inhabitants. But when it comes to a closed system, everything gets more complicated to control.

It seems to me that you have the patience and common sense to figure out where it can be improved, and certainly after this "fresh start", which was already beautiful will be much more!


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Old 12/22/2016, 08:28 AM   #2155
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Michael, sorry for the loses. I know the 'feeling' you talked about as I recently lost 6 small fish to an electrical leak in the sump!

But I look forward to seeing what new ideas you have for the tank.

My display refugium suffered some from the electrical leak as well. I almost lost a red macroalgae. It was brown and looking pretty bad so I pulled it. Being one who sees the glass half full, I put the algae in my shallow reef and it came back very quickly! And now my TBS live rock is adding some new macroalgae to the shallow reef tank that I may move to the display refugium. I also switched from very warm white light to cool white and the leather corals and gorgonian are doing better (they didn't like the electrical leak either), but the other 2 red macroalgaes are doing just fine as well.


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Old 12/22/2016, 08:33 AM   #2156
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Thank you, Edimar.

I admire your attitude and fortitude! This hobby "helps" us to learn many lessons, and for some of us who've been in it for many years, we get to learn them more than once!

I do hope the changes I make do improve my aquarium. I have no doubt there will be setbacks, but like you, I'll figure out what to do.

It sounds like your tank is evolving nicely!


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Old 12/22/2016, 10:31 AM   #2157
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Remember that I posted a photo of a seaweed, a small green stem, that was born on a rock?

Jraker thought it was a Cymopolia, and you agreed.

Yes, it was spread by the aquarium, a real plantation, even nice to see!


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Old 12/22/2016, 04:51 PM   #2158
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Nice! I love those. How about a pic?


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Old 12/22/2016, 05:12 PM   #2159
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Thanks Ron.

I don't think the new changes will look all that different. I guess it's more like 'major adjustments'. I do look forward to having a monospecific seagrass meadow. I think it will look much prettier! Adding a new fake wall on the left end of the tank should also look better. Plus some general tidying up, and system component replacements, should do the trick.


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Old 12/28/2016, 06:56 AM   #2160
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Sorry to hear about your fish losses. I still have one of your blenny pics as my desktop background. Any ideas of what fish you'll keep this time?


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Old 12/28/2016, 10:24 AM   #2161
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Thanks Chasmodes. It was tough to confess all the fish losses, especially after giving advice to others. This hobby will humble you quickly! I guess the lesson for me is, that despite pushing in a new direction, a lot of the old rules still apply-like quarantining fish.

As for new fish, I think the grammas will be fine. I'm in the process of catching them for quarantine. I may try and add a few other caribbean basslets, like the swiss guard, chalk and black cap. I'd like to get more barnacle blennies, and maybe some sailfins and a few other little guys. I may finally get some blue chrommis, and possibly try the cherub angel harem thing. My hope is that they'll be so involved with each other, they'll be less inclined to hassle other tank members. I think I'm done with lookdowns! They're really cool fish, but a little too much trouble to keep well-fed, without overfeeding the tank. For me, they're a fish for another day and another tank. I think I may keep three mollies, for both algae control and live food production. The school of sixteen was just a bit too much, overwhelming the blennies and the grammas. I may even get another atlantic blue tang! I miss that fish. If I do, this time I'll be sure to get the tank overgrown, and I'll feed it veggie food as well. It was so nice not to have to prune! We'll see.


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Old 12/29/2016, 06:55 AM   #2162
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Sounds like a good plan. Good luck catching the grammas. Would a swissguard basslet have too big of a mouth for keeping barnacle or sailfin blennies? If you get one, and you need a larger blenny, molly millers, or seaweed blennies, and maybe a redspotted hawk might be good options. Both of those blennies will eat some algae along with meaty treats. A redlip blenny might also be a good choice for algae control. If you go that route, you could probably keep small cardinalfish too.

But dang, those barnacle blennies are so cool!!!


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Old 12/29/2016, 07:06 AM   #2163
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Here's a cool basslet from the Diver's Den... out of my price range though, LOL:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden...+3&ddid=336230

If you get barnacles or sailfins, this goby might be a good option:
http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden...+3&ddid=336234

Seems like more Caribbean stuff than usual in the Diver's Den.


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Old 12/29/2016, 12:13 PM   #2164
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"Good luck catching the grammas". Ha! You aren't kidding! So far, I have caught none. Even the last three mollies are resisting capture, but I know I can net them if I have to. The grammas are looking to be a real challenge.

Good question on the swiss guard basslet. I think if I get the smallest fish in first, it'll be okay. I'll look into it to make sure. Thanks for all your suggestions! I've never heard of those two in Diver's Den.

At the moment at least, I'm not in need of micro algae control, what with the 'plague of snails' and mollies. What I'd like, is a macro algae grazer, that crops back my macros, without wiping them out.


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Old 12/29/2016, 03:03 PM   #2165
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I agree with you, Edimar, to some extent. I brought them in to provide a live food source, not to be the stars of the show. They have been hogging the show a bit!

However, if you consider the southern tip of Florida as part of the Caribbean, and I do, then the mollies are biotope-appropriate. They are found from North Carolina, all the way around Florida, to Texas. Remember, I am modeling an inland lagoon with variable salinity. That pretty much describes the mollies' preferred habitat.

As I said above, if they don't provide the benefits I'm looking for, they will be gone. So far, they provide no convenience at all! But if they start pumping out babies, like they should any day now, I'll be better able to decide if their inclusion is worth it.

What about just using saltwater live bearing minnows? They would seem to fit in better than the mollies and would provide food.


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Old 12/29/2016, 03:12 PM   #2166
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If you can't catch them give these a try. They are incredibly small.

http://www.tenkarabum.com/micro-fishing-hooks.html


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Old 12/29/2016, 05:14 PM   #2167
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Thanks pfan151. I chose to use mollies because they are readily available, and do well in any salinity level. And as I mentioned above, they are biotope-appropriate for my tank, and their appetite for algae is a bonus. I have not heard of salt water live bearing minnows, nor have I seen them for sale online. Is there such a fish? I agree they'd look more 'authentically salt water' and natural. Do you know of a source?

It's funny you should mention the tiny hook thing! I've used them before, and that may be what I end up doing again. It's kind of fun, fishing in your own aquarium, because you can see all the action and make adjustments on the fly, so to speak.

I really do want to get them ALL into quarantine, both to cure them of ICH, and to eradicate the ICH from my tank, by running it fallow. By the way, after reading an excellent article on ICH, I've decided to treat the fish with hypo salinity, rather than copper, etc. It's the cheapest, least dangerous to the fish, and easiest method to maintain proper levels, with stuff I already have.


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Old 12/29/2016, 05:38 PM   #2168
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Thanks pfan151. I chose to use mollies because they are readily available, and do well in any salinity level. And as I mentioned above, they are biotope-appropriate for my tank, and their appetite for algae is a bonus. I have not heard of salt water live bearing minnows, nor have I seen them for sale online. Is there such a fish? I agree they'd look more 'authentically salt water' and natural. Do you know of a source?

It's funny you should mention the tiny hook thing! I've used them before, and that may be what I end up doing again. It's kind of fun, fishing in your own aquarium, because you can see all the action and make adjustments on the fly, so to speak.

I really do want to get them ALL into quarantine, both to cure them of ICH, and to eradicate the ICH from my tank, by running it fallow. By the way, after reading an excellent article on ICH, I've decided to treat the fish with hypo salinity, rather than copper, etc. It's the cheapest, least dangerous to the fish, and easiest method to maintain proper levels, with stuff I already have.
I'll try to find the scientific name for them. They look basically just like freshwater mosquito fish. They are all over down here in Florida.


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Old 12/29/2016, 05:50 PM   #2169
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I tried my luck googling to no avail. I found some brackish minnows (like sheepshead and another one with a funny name), but none were live bearers.


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Old 12/29/2016, 06:30 PM   #2170
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Sheepshead minnows!!!!


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Old 12/29/2016, 06:31 PM   #2171
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Mumichog/killifish are also cool


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Old 12/29/2016, 06:49 PM   #2172
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I'll try to catch some next time I am on the coast. They look identical to this:




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Old 12/29/2016, 07:51 PM   #2173
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Bull minnows


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Old 12/30/2016, 08:19 AM   #2174
Michael Hoaster
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Thanks for all the suggestions!

Mummichogs and sheepsheads are not livebearers. pfan151, thanks for the minnow pic, but it looks no more saltwater than a molly. Bull/mud minnows aren't livebearers either.


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Old 12/30/2016, 08:30 AM   #2175
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Thanks for all the suggestions!

Mummichogs and sheepsheads are not livebearers. pfan151, thanks for the minnow pic, but it looks no more saltwater than a molly. Bull/mud minnows aren't livebearers either.
Male sheepshead minnows turn a really pretty blue and orange during mating season. Worth a look!

Do you really Need live bearers??


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