Reef Central Online Community
Blue Zoo Aquatics

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Invert and Plant Forums > Marine Plants & Macroalgae
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 12/18/2018, 08:46 AM   #1
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
JBJ 45 Rimless Macroalgae Tank

Looking at changing my plans a bit and going with a macroalgae biotope tank. My thoughts are Japan, Indonesia or for the ease of the biotope, just sticking with a Carribean biotope. I know there are a few of you doing macro biotopes out there, so I'd really covet your thoughts. Have you had luck sourcing algaes from various locations? Are any of you doing anything other than a Carribean biotope?


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/22/2018, 09:06 AM   #2
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,839
In my experience, the vast majority of macros available from American web sites (and LFSs) are from Florida/Caribbean, so it's natural to do Caribbean biotopes. I have seen a few non-Caribbean plants available, but not many.

I did a Caribbean biotope in my previous tank. I really enjoyed it, but I did run into some limitations with fish and inverts, while trying to comply with biotope 'rules'. So in my new tank Im not specifying Caribbean biotope - I'm calling it a lagoon biotope, leaving me open to anything that I think will benefit the system.

I think it would be very cool to do a Japan/Indonesia biotope! I just haven't seen much, if anything, from that area of the world. It would help if you lived there and/or spoke the language. Check out cksss's thread "40g Long Naturally sun-lit tank" here in the macro section of RC.

There's also the choice of not doing a biotope at all. You could just set up a tank for whatever macros you like, and just call it a macro tank. Have fun and good luck!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/26/2018, 10:58 AM   #3
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
In my experience, the vast majority of macros available from American web sites (and LFSs) are from Florida/Caribbean, so it's natural to do Caribbean biotopes. I have seen a few non-Caribbean plants available, but not many.

I did a Caribbean biotope in my previous tank. I really enjoyed it, but I did run into some limitations with fish and inverts, while trying to comply with biotope 'rules'. So in my new tank Im not specifying Caribbean biotope - I'm calling it a lagoon biotope, leaving me open to anything that I think will benefit the system.

I think it would be very cool to do a Japan/Indonesia biotope! I just haven't seen much, if anything, from that area of the world. It would help if you lived there and/or spoke the language. Check out cksss's thread "40g Long Naturally sun-lit tank" here in the macro section of RC.

There's also the choice of not doing a biotope at all. You could just set up a tank for whatever macros you like, and just call it a macro tank. Have fun and good luck!
Thanks Michael, I've been keeping a close eye on your tanks, and you've definitely given me some inspiration. I am thinking of doing a small group of Royal Grammas and a couple Black Cap Basslets in my 45 and sticking with the Caribbean Biotope thought process. I'm hoping I can pull that off as I know they can be a bit agressive with each other, but they are naturally found together, so hoping there will be enough room in the tank for them to get along. I think I'm going to be a little open to gulf, Florida and Caribbean species since they should mostly cross over, but that may leave it a little more open. I'm also a big fan of inverts, so I'm hoping to have lots of cool inverts in the tank. I may have a grouping of flower nems from the Caribbean too.


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/26/2018, 04:57 PM   #4
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,839
I have doubts you can keep multiple basslets in a 45. There are better, less aggressive choices for fish in groups, to fit your tank size. You should be able to have a nice collection of macros and inverts though. Have you looked at cksss's thread? He has an impressive 40 gallon tank with gorgeous macros and inverts.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/27/2018, 07:16 AM   #5
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster View Post
I have doubts you can keep multiple basslets in a 45. There are better, less aggressive choices for fish in groups, to fit your tank size. You should be able to have a nice collection of macros and inverts though. Have you looked at cksss's thread? He has an impressive 40 gallon tank with gorgeous macros and inverts.
Yes, I've seen his tank. It's gorgeous. That's the first tank that got me thinking about a macro tank.

I've also thought about a larger group of Flame cardinals. You think I'd fare better with those?

Maybe add a pygmy angel to keep them grouped a little better? That might not be good for my macros though.



Last edited by lifeoffaith; 12/27/2018 at 07:25 AM.
lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/27/2018, 08:40 AM   #6
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,839
Those flame cardinals look great. I have no experience with cardinals, but from what I've read, they should do better than basslets in a 45. Pygmy angels are often quite aggressive, especially in smaller tanks. Take a look at gobies and blennies. There are several that do well in groups, and don't need a big tank. Some will even spawn for you.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2019, 10:57 AM   #7
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
11 different Caribbean macros arrived yesterday from a fellow reefer from Michigan: Sargassum, Bryothamnion, Galaxaria, Thin Coraline, Gracilaria, Gracilaria Hayi, Fern Caulerpa, Halimedia, Bladed Caulerpa, Sawtooth Caulerpa and Green Grape Caulerpa. I'm going to have to keep an eye on these Caulerpa and get them thinned out when needed, but cool to finally have some color in the tank. Still trying to decide on fish. Thinking about 4 yellow head jawfish for stocking and then something that swims in the water column along with a nice selection of inverts. Have any of you kept arrow crabs in your Caribbean biotopes with fish? I know they can be opportunistic, as other crabs are, but would be curious what kind of a risk I'd be taking with one. I'm really into the crazy inverts available in this hobby. I'd love to add an urchin too, but they'd probably tear up my macroalgae, so I'll stick with macro safe inverts I suppose.



Last edited by lifeoffaith; 01/10/2019 at 11:09 AM.
lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2019, 02:54 PM   #8
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeoffaith View Post
11 different Caribbean macros arrived yesterday from a fellow reefer from Michigan: Sargassum, Bryothamnion, Galaxaria, Thin Coraline, Gracilaria, Gracilaria Hayi, Fern Caulerpa, Halimedia, Bladed Caulerpa, Sawtooth Caulerpa and Green Grape Caulerpa. I'm going to have to keep an eye on these Caulerpa and get them thinned out when needed, but cool to finally have some color in the tank. Still trying to decide on fish. Thinking about 4 yellow head jawfish for stocking and then something that swims in the water column along with a nice selection of inverts. Have any of you kept arrow crabs in your Caribbean biotopes with fish? I know they can be opportunistic, as other crabs are, but would be curious what kind of a risk I'd be taking with one. I'm really into the crazy inverts available in this hobby. I'd love to add an urchin too, but they'd probably tear up my macroalgae, so I'll stick with macro safe inverts I suppose.
If you are thinking jawfish you must have a sandbed that has some depth in p,aces. Maybe a shrimp/goby pair wouldbe fun. Macro algaes are more forgiving to the digging than some coral.

I have a porcelain and a pom pom crab and both of those are fun. I also have emerald crabs but I think they can go rogue and go after coral.


vlangel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/10/2019, 08:53 PM   #9
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlangel View Post
If you are thinking jawfish you must have a sandbed that has some depth in p,aces. Maybe a shrimp/goby pair wouldbe fun. Macro algaes are more forgiving to the digging than some coral.

I have a porcelain and a pom pom crab and both of those are fun. I also have emerald crabs but I think they can go rogue and go after coral.
I do have around 3-4 inches of sand throughout the tank. At first I wasnít sure I liked it, but itís perfect for the jawfish.

Anemone crabs are definitely on the list for the rock flower anemones I plan on. I just really want something different. Your tank has been a big inspiration alongside Michaelís and a couple others.


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/2019, 04:53 AM   #10
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeoffaith View Post
I do have around 3-4 inches of sand throughout the tank. At first I wasnít sure I liked it, but itís perfect for the jawfish.

Anemone crabs are definitely on the list for the rock flower anemones I plan on. I just really want something different. Your tank has been a big inspiration alongside Michaelís and a couple others.
Ahhh thank you. I appreciate the encouraging words. And I totally get why you would want unique inverts. Fish are great and beautiful but inverts are just fun, especially the different quirky ones. That is why I love the ocean so much...the diversity of life in all forms is so expansive. I am awestruck by it.


vlangel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/2019, 01:58 PM   #11
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlangel View Post
Ahhh thank you. I appreciate the encouraging words. And I totally get why you would want unique inverts. Fish are great and beautiful but inverts are just fun, especially the different quirky ones. That is why I love the ocean so much...the diversity of life in all forms is so expansive. I am awestruck by it.
I too am awestruck by it, definitely more fun than any hobby Iíve had before. Diversity is what I tell everyone who wants to listen is what got me into this hobby. Freshwater was getting boring. I still miss some if my freshwater tanks, but this totally makes up for it. And I tend to be a bit of a purist, letting nature take its course where I can, without being completely irresponsible.

Photos coming soon all!


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/2019, 06:52 PM   #12
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeoffaith View Post

Photos coming soon all!
I will be excited to see them.


vlangel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/2019, 09:10 PM   #13
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
FTS.jpgRight Side.jpgBryo.jpgHayi.jpgLeft Side.jpg


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/11/2019, 09:11 PM   #14
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
Prolifera.jpgTop.jpg


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/2019, 06:59 AM   #15
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,601
Very nice scape and I like the macro algaes. That is wise of you keeping the caulerpa in the sand bed away from you rock work.


vlangel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/2019, 07:36 AM   #16
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,839
Great pics! Tank looks great too. Beautiful selection of macros. You're off to a good start!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/12/2019, 11:06 AM   #17
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
Thanks guys. Looking to add some more, but will be a bit. I have a screen top kit on the way so that I can get the tank ready for fish too.


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/23/2019, 06:21 AM   #18
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
Been seeing some microalgae growth and a bit of die off from my macroalgaes, but they all seem to be alive and well except for my Sargassum (I'm not sure how it's doing, doesn't look great) and my Halimedia. Halimedia never really greened back up after shipping. I'm a bit excited to go to a local frag swap with over 90 vendors this coming Sunday. I am thinking I will go for clean up crew and some inverts. Maybe if I get lucky I'll come home with some good deals.

Also have been considering a Caribbean Sharpnose Puffer as my main fish in the tank and then a group of 10 green banded gobies as well. My thoughts have shifted a few times on fish stocking, but I think I may be narrowing it down now. I know that my biggest thing will be replacing snails from time to time and steering clear of small shrimp, which was something I thought I might do, but I think I'll enjoy the Puffer more. I also saw that they can eat sponges and corals. I don't plan on corals except gorgonians and then plan on some rock flower anemones. Anyone had experience with sharpnose puffers and gorgonians/flower nems? Does anyone know if the bigger cleaner shrimps are ok with the smaller puffers (Peppermint, Skunk and Blood Red)? Has anyone kept puffers with other fish at all to see any agression?



Last edited by lifeoffaith; 01/23/2019 at 07:11 AM.
lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/23/2019, 08:09 AM   #19
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,839
I've had similar luck with halimeda, even with good calcium levels. Sargassum I haven't tried, but I imagine it needs a ton of light, since it floats at the surface in nature.

It can be challenging, picking fish. There's so many choices! And then the real challenge is finding ones that play nicely with our chosen ecosystem. I have no experience with puffers, so I can't really help, but google should give you some answers. They look to be great personality fish.

I usually look at a potential fish's diet and behavior for clues to their compatibility with the rest of the tank members. Then I weigh the pros and cons. For me, no fish is more important than the ecosystem, so it forces me to be particular. Then, if I pick a fish and it turns out to be a bad fit, I remove it. I've seen a lot of bad fish choices transform cool ecosystems into ugly, boring 'fish tanks', simply because of sentimentality. "I can't remove him. He's too cute."

The green banded gobies sound like a good choice. Maybe give them a try first, and see how it goes, then decide what else would go well with them, and rest of your tank.


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/23/2019, 05:29 PM   #20
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeoffaith View Post
Been seeing some microalgae growth and a bit of die off from my macroalgaes, but they all seem to be alive and well except for my Sargassum (I'm not sure how it's doing, doesn't look great) and my Halimedia. Halimedia never really greened back up after shipping. I'm a bit excited to go to a local frag swap with over 90 vendors this coming Sunday. I am thinking I will go for clean up crew and some inverts. Maybe if I get lucky I'll come home with some good deals.

Also have been considering a Caribbean Sharpnose Puffer as my main fish in the tank and then a group of 10 green banded gobies as well. My thoughts have shifted a few times on fish stocking, but I think I may be narrowing it down now. I know that my biggest thing will be replacing snails from time to time and steering clear of small shrimp, which was something I thought I might do, but I think I'll enjoy the Puffer more. I also saw that they can eat sponges and corals. I don't plan on corals except gorgonians and then plan on some rock flower anemones. Anyone had experience with sharpnose puffers and gorgonians/flower nems? Does anyone know if the bigger cleaner shrimps are ok with the smaller puffers (Peppermint, Skunk and Blood Red)? Has anyone kept puffers with other fish at all to see any agression?
I have never kept sargassum but subsea (Patrick) who keeps a lot of macros says that it is particularly challenging. I also have some sad looking Halimeda but I read that it can die back then resprout so I am leaving it be as sad as it looks.

I love puffers too but have never kept them with anything but mushrooms, leathers and palys.


vlangel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/28/2019, 06:54 PM   #21
socalRW
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 13
I'm not an expert on the fish, but your tank is looking great. I think a puffer with some gobies would look nice -- I'm a fan of more selective fish stocking. I find many saltwater tanks tend to be more like: I'll have one of everything.

I'd prefer stockings be more intentional -- e.g., for my tank I'm going with a school of chromis and some mandarin's. Low bioload for a macro tank.


socalRW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/29/2019, 07:45 AM   #22
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
I am pretty sure I am down to gobies, but would be open to other options if they came up. I'm planning on a group of 5 or 6 Green Banded Gobies and probably 10 Masked Gobies at this point. I was able to pick up a few inverts/clean up crew/corals at the swap this past weekend. I found two different colored Caribbean finger sponges (red and yellow), two flower anemones (red and green and a lined black and gray), 3 different Gorgonians (purple blade, black and a smaller one that I'm not sure about yet, 5 Astreas (should have got a bunch of these because I can't seem to come up with any Ceriths locally, 5 Nassarius, 1 arrow crab, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 caribbean vareity sea cucumber and then picked up 5 crimson hermit crabs yesterday. Everything looks great. I'll try to get some more photos soon.


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/29/2019, 07:55 AM   #23
Michael Hoaster
Registered Member
 
Michael Hoaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 3,839
That sounds great! You're stocking is coming along nicely. Keep an eye on the arrow crab. I've read some horror stories…

Pics!


__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018
Michael Hoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01/29/2019, 08:04 AM   #24
vlangel
Registered Member
 
vlangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeoffaith View Post
I am pretty sure I am down to gobies, but would be open to other options if they came up. I'm planning on a group of 5 or 6 Green Banded Gobies and probably 10 Masked Gobies at this point. I was able to pick up a few inverts/clean up crew/corals at the swap this past weekend. I found two different colored Caribbean finger sponges (red and yellow), two flower anemones (red and green and a lined black and gray), 3 different Gorgonians (purple blade, black and a smaller one that I'm not sure about yet, 5 Astreas (should have got a bunch of these because I can't seem to come up with any Ceriths locally, 5 Nassarius, 1 arrow crab, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1 caribbean vareity sea cucumber and then picked up 5 crimson hermit crabs yesterday. Everything looks great. I'll try to get some more photos soon.
I like the sounds of the direction your tank is going. You will enjoy those gobies, they are fun. The RFA will give you nice color. Ricordia or St Thomas shrooms are another way to get caribbean coral with color. I am planning on both of those for my tank. I will be anxious to see those pics!


vlangel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01/31/2019, 03:15 PM   #25
lifeoffaith
Registered Member
 
lifeoffaith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Grand Rapids MI area
Posts: 727
I was a bit worried that my arrow crab would get after my small skunk cleaner shrimp. Seems like they hardly even know they are sharing a tank. Excited to have some actual movement in the tank between the gorgonians, crabs, snails and shrimp.

Does anyone have experience with cherub angels in a harem? That might be a cool addition after I get the green banded gobies in and established.


lifeoffaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:25 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.