Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Do It Yourself
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 06/19/2017, 07:20 AM   #451
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
How much power can the board handle?
Why 15 kHz? Is it the pulse timing for the commutation that's driving the resolution?


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 11:49 AM   #452
theatrus
100-mile-commuter
 
theatrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: almost nevada
Posts: 4,705
Based on current evidence, the FET drivers could handle the large DCT-15000 pump, however the currently installed current shunt limits the current and that pump caps out before it gets anywhere close to 100W average.

The DCT-4000 and 6000 run at their rated power.

Of course you can already buy a controller for Apex-to-DCT (would love a teardown), but this is at least pretty universal for sensorless motors.

The PWM signal is effectively coupled directly to the FET drive, so if your frequency is too low you'll have your drive off for most of a phase, hence it will rapidly stall the motor. One quirk is the controller still sees BEMF and thinks its running when the rotor is stalled - there is some nasty EMI flying around here likely contributing to this.


__________________
Custom electronics purveyor.

Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics
theatrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 11:52 AM   #453
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
I got one of those. Want me to take it apart for pictures?

Actually, if you really want, I'll send it to you for diagnostics.

As long as I get a "materials cost" build of your version when it works... LOL

I'm serious though


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 12:57 PM   #454
theatrus
100-mile-commuter
 
theatrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: almost nevada
Posts: 4,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by karimwassef View Post
I got one of those. Want me to take it apart for pictures?

Actually, if you really want, I'll send it to you for diagnostics.

As long as I get a "materials cost" build of your version when it works... LOL

I'm serious though
Pictures are fine - either it will be a known controller, or an unbadged or unknown/MCU driven approach.


__________________
Custom electronics purveyor.

Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics
theatrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 01:27 PM   #455
d0ughb0y
Registered Member
 
d0ughb0y's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: sf bay area
Posts: 5,032
so for the fish street controller, how do you configure it to work with the different dct pumps and the cross flow? dip switch?

I figure this is to switch the current sense resistor value. I don't think the start and run sequence would be any different


d0ughb0y is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 01:31 PM   #456
theatrus
100-mile-commuter
 
theatrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: almost nevada
Posts: 4,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by d0ughb0y View Post
so for the fish street controller, how do you configure it to work with the different dct pumps and the cross flow? dip switch?

I figure this is to switch the current sense resistor value. I don't think the start and run sequence would be any different
The manual shows DIP switches for the various pumps. And yeah, I imagine its just the current limit.


__________________
Custom electronics purveyor.

Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics
theatrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 02:13 PM   #457
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
Quote:
Originally Posted by theatrus View Post
Pictures are fine - either it will be a known controller, or an unbadged or unknown/MCU driven approach.
But don't you want to monitor their commutation during start up


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 02:14 PM   #458
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
I'll take pics

Was hoping for more invasive testing that I don't have the bandwidth to do now.


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 03:21 PM   #459
theatrus
100-mile-commuter
 
theatrus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: almost nevada
Posts: 4,705
In case you're really itching to see the startup waveform:



Motor is running at about 100ms in.


__________________
Custom electronics purveyor.

Current Tank Info: 90g SPS+mixed reef (10 yrs): LEDBrick LEDs, 40g custom sump, Ca reactor, chiller, Vortech, lots of custom electronics
theatrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06/19/2017, 03:57 PM   #460
karimwassef
Registered Member
 
karimwassef's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,899
picture didn't make it... scratch scratch


__________________
Failure isn't an option It's a requirement. 660g 380inwall+280smp/surge S/L/Soft/Maxima/RBTA/Clown/Chromis/Anthias/Tang/Mandarin/Jawfish/Goby/Wrasse/D'back. DIY 12' Skimmer ActuatedSurge ConcreteScape
karimwassef is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/12/2017, 06:46 AM   #461
Bigfish246
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 72
I have not been through this whole thread yet (still on the firs page) but I want to give a BIG thank you to d0ughb0y for all you do. First, a complete controller and now your sinking your teeth into this with unlimited info and shared experiments, wow! You, Karimwassef and all the other that take their time out to do these things for people like us are awesome.

Thank you, thank you thank you!!


Bigfish246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09/21/2017, 02:07 PM   #462
Anthony Mckay
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 4
Hello Gents,
I have the dcp series pumps and want to control them from a p4.
Still scratching my head lol.
Got a cp55 that the controller gave up the ghost on too so looking for something to build to replace that as nothing on the market seems to touch the cp55 or dcp series pumps to replace the original controllers !
Anyway superb work gents i watch on with interest.


Anthony Mckay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05/05/2018, 05:52 PM   #463
gernby
Registered Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 69
I am bumping this thread to see if any of you guys are still working on a custom controller. After reading the thread, I'm also curious if anyone tried increasing the supply voltage to the [cheap] BLDC controllers above 24V to achieve pump outputs closer to the stock controllers.

I spent some time today comparing waveforms on my oscilloscope between this BLDC controller and the DCT and DCP controllers, and think that higher supply voltage will be necessary. Since all of the controllers use a PWM output without any feedback loop to adjust pulse width, it would be a coincidence for the fixed pulse width profile of any controller to match the power requirement of some random pump. I now realize that the controllers are designed with some target impedance, and the "high power" BLDC controllers seem to be designed specifically for high current motors (low coil resistance).

What I've found is that the controller linked above, which supports up to 36V, is able to achieve a little more than half of the rated flow at about half of the power draw of the stock controller. However, at the lowest speeds (and zero head pressure), it matches the stock controller. It isn't until it crosses a threshold that the speed and power draw drops in half. Near that threshold, the pump makes a significant amount of noise, and the power draw bounces up and down. The highest power draw I'm able to achieve with my Jebao DCP-15000 is 56W with the cheap BLDC controller, then it gets noisy and unstable. However, I suspect that increasing the supply voltage beyond 24V would help that quite a bit. With the stock controller it goes just above 100W.

I was very disappointed a few minutes ago to find that my 36V power supply is fried, so I'm going to order another one. However, I'm hoping that someone following this thread has tried increasing the voltage to overcome this issue.



Last edited by gernby; 05/05/2018 at 07:05 PM.
gernby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:23 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.