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Old 04/07/2015, 07:29 PM   #1
mvsjrs
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320 gallons of Serenity, Sea Monsters & Sanctuary

This thread was moved from http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2493767
because the blog doesn't give any postings credit and I need to build up some posts.

This thread is about the build for four tanks operating on a central filtration system. I don't name my fish but I do name my tanks...

"Serenity" - a 92 gallon REEF corner tank
"Sea Monsters" - a 105 gallon FOWLR of aggressive fish
"Sanctuary" - a 90 gallon REFUGIUM
"TBD" - a 40 gallon STRECH HEX which will have variable occupants.

Here goes... screeeeech!

NOTE: I am revising this build blog to include pictures from a new source. Please be patient as I go through the process. Also, the 4 types of tanks I expected to achieve are entirely difference...

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Current Tank Info: Getting there...

"Physics is a b!tch. She's always right no matter how sure you were about your plumbing." Me, standing in a puddle of water...

"You cannot allow [yourself] to avoid the brutal facts. If [you] start living in a dream world, it's going to be bad." General "Mad Dog” Mattis.



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Old 04/07/2015, 07:35 PM   #2
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After 6 years of lurking, this will be my first build posting. I hope to get four tanks totaling 360 gallons water running on a central system in my home. A corner reef, a FOWLR, an invert refugia, and a small specialty tank.

These are some pictures of the setup before converting to a reef.





Back story (i.e.- not critical to build): Three years ago, my 92 corner was happily running as my first saltwater effort. Along comes “family priorities” and the family is off to Cincinnati. Fortunately, I had 3 months to meticulously plan the move. Everything in containers. Five or six fish warm & cozy, lots of crazy colored invertebrates, modest soft corals & mostly mushrooms, a couple hundred pounds of live rock, live sand rinsed & containerized, and all equipment lined up. Five hundred miles later in July heat, we go to closing only to find that the sellers left their cats alone in the house for three weeks leaving urine damage down to the subfloor. Bad, very bad. We setup emergency accommodations in the garage to limp along a few days and head for a hotel while ripping out all the floors & getting disaster relief cleaning. Yup, doom. A summer thunderstorm trips the power and the skimmer pump magnet fails to restart and just generates heat while sitting in the Rubbermaid stock tank. By the end of the 80 degF night, we arrive to a horrendous stench of stewed marine death. Two years later, a new start…


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Old 04/07/2015, 07:36 PM   #3
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These are the tanks that I would like to bring together in the system.
• 92 gal corner (reef ready Oceanic) – REEF DT in Home Office.
• 105 gal xtall (reef ready Oceanic) – FOWLR DT in Master BR.
• 90 gal (reef ready Oceanic) – refugium in basement.
• 40 gal stretch HEX (Oceanic) – novelty DT in hall way.
• 65 gal sump (All Glass) – in basement
• 65 gal plastic barrel – extra volume in basement.
The gives around 320 gal of display and 430 gal active volume.

These are the parameters:
(1) No new investment in capital. Re-use, re-purpose or DIY.
(2) Dead silent DTs. No motor noise or water rushing. Only “soothing” levels of cascade in overflows allowed.
(3) No visible equipment (i.e. powerheads) in the DT’s. A discrete nozzle or otherwise camouflaged bulkhead or pipe.
(4) No introduction of heat from the REEF DT (esp lighting) into the Home Office. I sweat my job too much as is…
(5) Ability to meet high flow demands of SPS corals and high pods supply to keep 1 or more mandarins fat and happy.

Everything should fall in place from there.



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Old 04/07/2015, 07:37 PM   #4
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The basement is where I would like all the noise. Therefore, there is one floor head to the fish tanks. Also, the 92REEF is right above the location in the basement and the 105FOWLR is about 15 feet away horizontally.

Planning SPS flow, I need much higher flow and turbulence than an 800 gph overflow can handle. Worse is that the corner tank has a 1” drain and ¾” return. Herbies, Dursos and BeanAnimals oh my! But none will provide sufficient flow in this setup. No visible powerheads leaves me few options other than a closed loop. I have five external pumps to choose from.
• BlueLine 70HD – 1750 gph, 39 ft max head
• TurboSea 1740P – same
• Dolphin Diamond Amp Master 6250-T3 – 6258 gph, 23 ft max head
• TurboSea 1090 – 1090 gph, 13 ft max head
• Danner Mag-Drive Supreme

I propose using the BlueLine to run the sump for the 92REEF and 90REFUGIUM filtration and the TurboSea for the 105FOWLR filtration. That leaves the Amp Master humiliated with closed loop duty. Real flow rate would be useful so I will start running pipe.



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Old 04/07/2015, 07:38 PM   #5
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I did not want to drill through the hardwood floors so my only choice was to run through the wall and sole plate. Things looked good as the location of where I needed to run the pipes coincided with being between the studs and below the fire block. However, not so good in the basement ceiling. The load bearing beam, septic lines, hot and cold water lines, and central air return all converged on that one location. Literally any other spot in the ceiling was OK except for there.

Enter drill, chisel, hammer drill and sawzall. Several bloody knuckles later and I had negotiated a roughly 4x4” hole and partially drilled through the adjoining room molding. A quick patch & prayer that the wife doesn’t find it. Moving on to flow rate testing.



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Old 04/07/2015, 07:38 PM   #6
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Flow Rate Testing
(yes, I could use a calculator but I really like actual measurements)

Supply rate:
BlueLine 70HP @ 14’ head = 1215 gph = 20 gpm
8.3 ft/s via 1” flexible pipe

Amp Master @ 14’ head = 3900 gph = 65 gpm
>20 ft/s via 1” flexible pipe

Mag Drive Supreme @ 14’ head = 720 gph = 12 gpm
<6 ft/s via 1” flexible pipe

Drain rate:
14’ siphon @ 1” flexible pipe = 905 gph

Conclusions:
(1) The BlueLine can be split between the reef, refugium and reactors without problem.
(2) The TurboSea can run the FOWLR quite nicely.
(3) The Amp Master would have to have its flow divided for reasonable outlet velocities.
(4) The MD Supreme does not have a sweet spot in this application.

I probably need more testing of the closed loop because RULE #2 (no noise) and all these pumps run with some motor noise. Unfortunately, that means I will have to run multiple lines to divide its flow. I would like an Oceans Motions but that would violate RULE #1 (no investment) and potentially RULE #2. I do have a 1” inlet/outlet SCWD but it would definitely violate RULE #2.

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Current Tank Info:
Single system of three tanks:
• Serenity: 92 gal corner REEF
• Sea Monster: 105 gal FOWLR
• Refugium: 90 gal

"You cannot allow [yourself] to avoid the brutal facts. If [you] start living in a dream world, it's going to be bad." General "Mad Dog” Mattis.

"Physics is a b!tch. She's always right no matter how sure you were about your plumbing." Me, standing in a puddle of water...


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Old 04/07/2015, 07:40 PM   #7
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Candidates please...





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Old 04/07/2015, 07:43 PM   #8
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Closed Loop Testing

Drain line = 1.5” using a drilled bulkhead, approximately 2/3 of the way up the back wall.








Supply rate:
TurboSea 1740P via one (1) 1” flexible pipe @ 14’ head = 913 gph = 15 gpm, ~7 ft/sec (10x turnover)
TurboSea 1740P via two (2) 1” flexible pipes @ 14’ head = 818 gph = 13 gpm (1636 gal total, 18x turnover)
TurboSea 1740P via three (3) 1” flexible pipes @ 14’ head = 545 gph = 9 gpm (1636 gal total, 18x turnover)
Amp Master via three (3) 1” flexible pipes @ 14’ head = 621 gph = 10 gpm (1862 gal total, 20x turnover)
(didn’t do 4 pipes because I only could fit three right now.)

Conclusions:
(1) The BlueLine and Amp Master perform almost the same at around 20x turnover.
(2) Including the approximately 8x turnover of the filtration is still far too little water movement in the tank.
(3) The Amp Master is really being hindered by the outlet size of the three (3) pipes (maybe as much as 4400 gph or 70% of capacity!). This will require attention to detail to allow the additional outlet volume and should probably be reviewed for the gravity feed rate of the 1.5" pipe which is around 2100 gph.



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Old 04/07/2015, 07:45 PM   #9
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So, it required more than a week to get the plumbing up from the basement through the floor. I hope I don’t undertake such an endeavor again. Here is the pictorial.













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Old 04/07/2015, 08:06 PM   #10
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This is my future fishroom:



The tank on top of the stand is "Sanctuary" the refugium. Below is the 65 gallon xtall which will be the sump. The blue barrel is extra volume and water changes. I have three metal halides (250 & two 400 watts) so I used to use the chiller in the middle of the floor. However, I am in Ohio and the basement really only reaches 65 degrees which makes me believe that my problem will be more on the heating and less cooling.




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Old 04/07/2015, 08:10 PM   #11
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Real progress...Houston we have circulating water!













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Old 04/08/2015, 08:34 PM   #12
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Tested return rate to the tank since I "finalized" the plumbing and removed several fittings & a feet of hose. Supply rate to the tank:
Amp Master via three (3) 1” flexible pipes @ 14’ head = 820 gph = 14 gpm (2460 gph total for all 3 pipes, 27x tank volume turnover)

The capacity @ 14' head pressure should be 65 gpm = 3900 gph (42x turnover).

I planned to use only the three (3) lines because I included a SQWD in the system and that alternating uses two (2) pipes. Given that I should have plenty more capacity with the pump, I am going to remove the SQWD so that four (4) pipes run. I can anticipate that will then return 3280 gph.


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Old 04/09/2015, 01:22 AM   #13
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Holy Crap.


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Old 04/09/2015, 04:13 AM   #14
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My, you have been holding this idea in for a while haven't you! Looks really cool, I can't wait to see how this turns out. Looks like you've done some research, might want to check out the large reef tanks forum for some more ideas. Awesome project!


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Old 04/09/2015, 07:45 PM   #15
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oldbones, that is the best summary yet.

nmotz, 2 years now I have been in limbo. I had to leave a 182 SHOW and a magnificent 140X behind in NJ. Both are regrets now. You are absolutely on target with the large reef tank forum. That's where I made the decision to bring all my tanks together.

















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Old 04/11/2015, 12:44 PM   #16
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Status update:
Working to finalize the closed loop system but I have hit a hiccup. Vibration!

Obsessively, I secured the return lines neatly above the pump to a suspended 2x6 mounted to 2x4's hanging from a rafter. I used pipe stays to secure the return lines to the 2x6 where the line transition from hard plumbing to flexible pipe. Well...it turned the entire room into on big percussion instrument.







The vibrations of the pump were nicely transferred from the pump to the pipes, to the suspension frame, to the rafters and to my den floor. In fact, the rafters amplified the vibrations. A big FAIL for this part.

With the pipes freestanding and a piece of tubing prevent them from touching the wood frame, no more vibrations.



With this understanding, I need to provide support from the concrete floor or wall. Also, the pump is considerably loud even with the floor between pump and tank. I may have additional rethinking to do.



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Old 04/19/2015, 09:23 PM   #17
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So, the closed loop supply rate to the tank:
Amp Master w/ (3) 1” flexible pipes @ 14’ head = 820 gph >> 2460 gph total (27x turnover).

Now, if the Amp Master has a great deal of capacity remaining and the 1" plumbing is the restricting factor, I would reasonably expect
Amp Master w/ (4) 1” flexible pipes @ 14’ head = 820 gph >> 3280 gph total (36x turnover).

I planned to use only the three (3) lines because I included a SQWD in the system and that alternating uses two (2) pipes. Given that I should have plenty more capacity with the pump, I am going to remove the SQWD so that four (4) pipes run. I can anticipate that will then return 3280 gph.

So, by removing the flow diverter inside the SQWD, I am effectively returning w/ (4) 1" pipes. Here is the test data:
Amp Master w/ (2) 1” flexible pipes @ 14’ head = 721 gph >> 1442 gph total.
Amp Master w/ (2) 1” flexible pipes via empty SQWD @ 14’ head = 609 gph >> 1218 gph total.
Total system 2660 (29x turnover)

2660 gph versus 2460 gph (well below the extrapolated 3280 gph)
The capacity @ 14' head pressure should be 65 gpm = 3900 gph (42x turnover).

Disappointing for that much pump! Holy total dynamic head losses Batman! It’s all about the size of your pipe Robin.


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Old 04/19/2015, 09:49 PM   #18
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So where do you go after all the pipes are squeezed in and glued? Back to actual engineering design…

http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml


http://www.harvel.com/technical-supp...ss/schedule-40

To vet my numbers, I put the following details into the RC Head Loss Calculator:


(1) Simulated current length of 4 lines as a total of 60' of 1" pipe. Reynold's number too low and frictional losses could not resolve.
Never use 1" pipe for this solver and pump. Use 1. or larger.
(2) Pump outlet to three (3) 1.5" pipes with reduction to 1". Fourth pipe is created by splitting one (1) 1" pipe into two (2) 1" pipes
(actually removing swivel from SQWD).
(3) Calculate diameter of respective area of 4 1" pipes:
(4) Reduced diamater from 2" to 1.5" in order to find out what similuates the current setup so I can model varying situations.
  • The first two are very close on the spec's which is a good sign.
  • The optimal scenario certainly shows that if I could figure out how to run a 2" pipe, the bump would be substantial.
  • The calculator's actual output is amazingly close to measurements.
  • The simulated calculator's actual output is amazingly close to measurements.
  • Even if the 4x1" pipe equals 2" pipe is too liberal (because of the pipe area-to-circumference ratio and the flow velocities are much higher increasing TDH), 1.5" pipe would be no less in flow than my current design.
  • Finally, keeping the 2" diameter will be important if I move the further away in the basement.




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Old 04/19/2015, 09:52 PM   #19
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Sorry, here are the pump curves for the Dolphin Diamond Amp Master 6250:







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Old 05/23/2015, 02:14 PM   #20
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Ran into a bit of a stalemate with the pump noise so I moved my attention to the water supply and slop sink. Mixing waters for various tanks (salt, soft fresh and hard fresh) means my life is easier if I can remember I need a water change before work, fill the holding tank then mix and change that night. So, I had two separate systems in that pile of "holy crap" and I made a single system with two 90 gpd membranes (SPECTRAPURE® SPECTRASELECT PLUS 99% REJECTION RO MEMBRANE 90GPD). We have town water so there's chlorine and I obsess about shortening my membrane life so I went to two carbon blocks in series.

The sequence is SED-SED-CAR-CAR-RO (1+2)-DI-DI. There is a tap between the two carbons so that I can pour off a little water to see if the first carbon block is spent then rotate the partial unit to the front and add a new secondary block.







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Old 05/23/2015, 02:33 PM   #21
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Continuing to avoid the pump noise issue, I moved on to the ventilation of the hood. The room is already heated by sunny windows, a box turtle terrarium, 4 LCD monitors, 3-4 workstations and sundry electronics. I have a hard time keeping it at 84degF without freezing the wife in other parts of the house. So, I would like to vent any lighting heat possible just for my comfort and secondarily for keeping the tank coil. A good 50% of the ultimate water will however be in the basement with an ambient temperature of 60-64degF winter to summer. So cooling for my wet guests should not be an issue.

Here's what I did to vent my hood. Lowes provided a low profile dryer vent that is expandable to accommodate various heights. I separated the two halves and drilled holes to match my canopy then flipped it over so the vent port was pointing away from the canopy. A little flat black the structure disappears into the gap behind the tank.

The vent hole is positioned to match a similar dryer line installed in the wall down to the basement. A vent fan with thermostat will draw air from the room, through the canopy and into the basement. Depending on the heating needs of the tank, I have considered venting this hot air into an "cabinet" enclosing some of the spare water reservoirs.









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Old 05/23/2015, 11:13 PM   #22
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Ah. A sense of order returning. The CL returns are now secured to the foundation and tank stand rather than the rafters. Not quite as pleasing but definitely reduces vibration conduction and resonance. Right above the horizontal securement bar, I will cut the vertical pipes and add more flex tubing to dampen the vibrations further.





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Old 05/27/2015, 09:17 PM   #23
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First photobucket SNAFUs show up.

But, let me introduce you to the Guardian Angel.



One switch all water stop flowing! Praise the Lord.
Forget and leave it off, the stink of death! Damn the Unnamed One.

Whoops, too, had a nasty back accident: iliosacral joint tear, herniated L4-L5 & bulging L3-L4. Still recovering but back into the man/fish cave. Therefore, progress has negligible on the project.

Dreamy Greek god:


Lifting 1000+ stones from water's edge:



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Old 08/27/2015, 07:42 PM   #24
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OKAY!!!, Here we are back from a emergency pothole repair...our pond (i.e.- largest fish tank) had a leak that needed repair. Hence the back damage. The physical therapy cost more than the rental of the excavator. It was massively fun however.











End Result:


Large Mouth Bass:


Small Mouth Bass:


Pretty Fishies:


Big Pretty Fishies:




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Old 08/27/2015, 08:07 PM   #25
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Now back to fishiness…

Got the rock cooking…


Also, got a sink installed. Wow! Be upgrade ever.


Finally, I went Craigslist and bought a setup from someone moving. The real intent was the stand and canopy for a discus tank. However, the 120gal fit my refugium space in my filter rack perfectly so I just had to replace the 90gal. I would have been foolish otherwise. (Hey, the wife went for the idea!)




And added my first mascots for the project:




Unfortunately, the seller's tank had gone past old tank syndrome to downright nasty so all the fish had various skin lesions. There was little to do but watch them wither day by day. Without a doubt, the DSB in his tank was saturated with blackening regions under the live rock. The trapped phosphates and sulfuric zones must have been sky high. The skimmer had reached a point that it was entirely full of dried, condensed skimmate with the overflow line leading right back into the sump. Matched with a 150X gal, the stand and canopy do look awesome.




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